Talk:Benjamin Flores Jr.

Requested move 22 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move to Benjamin Flores Jr. This is the name that it used in the article, and it appears that there is consensus in this discussion that the subject's real name is acceptable. (non-admin closure) Bradv 00:28, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

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Lil' P-Nut → Benjamin "Lil' P-Nut" Flores Jr. – Article was moved, without discussion, in January 2015 by now banned user Elblanco123 (a confirmed sock of master Ottoniel Blanco) from the proposed location to its current one. The issues is this: under no circumstances is "Lil' P-Nut" the WP:COMMONNAME of this individual. The subject has been credited in his three most prominent roles (the TV series The Haunted Hathaways and Game Shakers, and the film Happy Feet Two) as "Benjamin "Lil' P-Nut" Flores, Jr." Reliable sourcing can be found that use both "Benjamin "Lil' P-Nut" Flores, Jr." [1] [2] [3] [4] and just "Benjamin Flores, Jr." [5] [6] with the former seeming to be used more often. Thus, the article should be moved to one of those locations. I am hoping the community can help us figure put whether Benjamin "Lil' P-Nut" Flores, Jr. or Benjamin Flores, Jr. is the better destination here, but in either case Lil' P-Nut is not the correct article title here, as per WP:COMMONNAME. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:39, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support, Move back In ictu oculi (talk) 08:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
• Question - All but two of the sources and external links in the article use "Lil' P-Nut". A.V. Club uses "Benjamin 'Lil' P-Nut' Flores, Jr." IMDb uses "Benjamin Flores Jr." The links you provide that omit "Lil' P-Nut" are earlier. I'm curious as to the parallel Ron Artest/Metta World Peace (IMDb uses "Ron Artest"). - SummerPhD^v2.0 15:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
  • @SummerPhDv2.0: That's a good question. I believe when the subject first became known, it was for rapping as "Lil' P-Nut" (I guess this would be circa 2010). However, I would say since he began acting prominently (c. 2011–12), he's been pretty consistently credited as "Benjamin "Lil' P-Nut" Flores, Jr.", and that's probably when WP:RS began referring to him the same way (note: it's the other way around – the links at the article seem to be earlier than the sources I provide above)... P.S. I would like to add some additional sourcing to the article (e.g. perhaps some of the sources I cite above) – I might be able to get to that this holiday weekend. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:29, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
• Move to Benjamin Flores Jr. Multiple sources use the actual name rather than rap stage name, which must have reflect his pre-pubescent days. This year's sources using the real name: TVSeriesFinale.com, Broadway World, Twist, J-14, Cinema Blend, Newsday, NME, Channel Guide Magazine, PR NewsWire. Sources using the rap name: Just Jared Jr (which also uses the real name as tag; unlinked due to blacklist warning), NBC's San Diego affiliate, Pop Matters, Mashable, Commercial Appeal via USA Today. Sources using the proposed name, normally discouraged by WP:TITLEFORMAT: Forbes, Fuse, Chicago Sun-Times, Bustle. My total of sources using real name is nine; rap stage name, five; combined name, four. Looks like a majority (50%) for the real name at first, but combination of using rap stage name and using the combined name is 50% (27.7778% + 22.2222%). The proposed title looks too long for readers to search for, despite decent amount of sources. The rap name is starting to be used less. The little fella's real name is the least surprising per WP:DIVIDEDUSE, so use it. George Ho (talk) 03:26, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Note that this is all ignoring how Flores is credited in his major roles, as outlined in the original move proposal, and I'd say that that is probably more important than how garden-variety press sources refer to him. Also, I provided 4 other sources that use the "long form" of the name, which means 6–8 sources (depending on how you want to count it) go with the long form (and among these sources is Variety, Entertainment Weekly, and the Chicago Sun-Times). None of this means that "Benjamin Flores, Jr." is necessarily the "wrong" title for the article, just that it's not as clear cut as you're making it out. As long as the other exists as a redirect, I think either "Benjamin "Lil' P-Nut" Flores, Jr." or "Benjamin Flores, Jr." are acceptable destination titles for the article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:20, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Per WP:AT#Deciding on an article title, whose shortcut is WP:Criteria, we can pick the simplest, most obvious title that is recognizable to readers, natural to search for, precise and concise enough to differentiate from other articles, and consistent with other articles. The name lacking the nickname fits the bill. I recently found Benjamín Flores and BJ Flores, but they do not come close to this little fella. "Jr." is sufficient enough; we don't need to add in "Lil' P-Nut" as extra disambiguation is unnecessary per (again) WP:TITLEFORMAT and WP:Precision. Readers can recognize the guy's real name more than his combined name, i.e. readers come first. However, per WP:Criteria (again), if the decision to rename the title is difficult for you, maybe we can together reach an agreement to see which criteria fit best. By the way, I removed the comma preceding Jr. from the proposal per previous consensus months ago. George Ho (talk) 05:05, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

• Anyone care to close this now?... There is clear consensus that "Lil' P-Nut" is the wrong article title. We just need an Admin, etc. to pick one name or the other, and we're good to go. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:56, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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