Talk:List of X-Men members

Captain Krakoa

In which comic book issues is Cyclops called as Captain Krakoa as member of the X-Men? Hotwiki (talk) 10:27, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ringardiumleviossa: also in which comic book issue Piotr Rasputin used the codename "Juggernaut" as a member of the X-Men? I'm just verifying the reverted changes recently. Hotwiki (talk) 10:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Comic book issue in which Emma Frost was called as the Black Queen as a member of the X-Men, as well. Hotwiki (talk) 10:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Cyclops as Captain Krakoa in X-Men vol. 6 #6 as disguise.

Colossus as Juggernaut in Uncanny X-Men #542 when he got powers of Cyttorak.

She was using it when she left Dark X-Men to join X-Men in Dark Avengers #8 and used it briefly before Schism. Ringardiumleviossa (talk) 10:44, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Do you have comic books scans of those issues for verification. I've read those issues in the past but I cannot recall if they ever used those codenames as members of the X-Men. Hotwiki (talk) 10:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Do you remember White Queen dressing as whole black and not white dress atleast once while with other X-Men? (Used Black Queen codename then) Or Colossus getting the powers of Juggernaut? And Captain Krakoa is the the latest one in Krakoan Age as he used Captain Krakoa suit. Search in internet or read those comics to clear it. Ringardiumleviossa (talk) 10:51, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I have read those issues in the past. But for verification, I want to see if they used those codenames as members of the X-Men. Also Cyclops as Captain Krakoa doesn't really count since it was a disguise. I wouldn't have brought those up if you didn't include them in the article, so I'm merely asking for a reference. Hotwiki (talk) 11:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't have references or scans. That's why I asked to you to read those comics. Ringardiumleviossa (talk) 11:15, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki For Cyclops: For Colossus: Ringardiumleviossa (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I will look at those later in less than 24 hours. Hotwiki (talk) 16:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki Verify them and if you more, I can provide you, then add them to this article. The talk page in this article is way too slow for consensus and every changes in this article (even the little ones) have to go through the talk. That's why I'm not getting myself to edit article again. Feel free to do edits from mg sandbox if you think that will improve this page. Ringardiumleviossa (talk) 08:56, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Scott Summers used Captain Krakoa codename for more than 6 issues. @Hotwiki, how can you be [talking about consensus] regarding Captain Krakoa codename even if you were given references here and that too reliable ones? 2409:40C1:10BC:D198:5549:7648:8F85:AAC4 (talk) 11:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, I disagree. He was in disguise as Captain Krakoa. Hotwiki (talk) 12:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

But people regarded Captain Krakoa as their superhero and then everybody know it was Scott Summers codename. You just don't to add that codename that's all. 2409:40C1:10BC:D198:5549:7648:8F85:AAC4 (talk) 12:05, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, I'm really suspicious about these Ip users, Sewnbegun and the blocked user Ringardiumleviossa. You all seem to be having the same edits. All of Ringardiumleviossa's proposal in this talkpage are being implemented in the article by Sewnbegun and the recent IP users, without adding a comment in the talk page. Another big example is both Sewnbegun and Ringardiumleviossa have the entire List of X-Men members in their sandbox. Sewnbegun's account was created, the day after Ringardiumleviossa was blocked for editing. Hotwiki (talk) 12:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Please be considerate to link the users you have been mentioning so that they can also get notify of the discussion. 2409:40C1:10BC:D198:5549:7648:8F85:AAC4 (talk) 12:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a rule for blocked editors. You cannot just switch through another Ip adress via VPN or switch through another Wikipedia account, especially to persuade article discussion/consensus. Ringardiumleviossa was blocked for sockpuppetry. Now, for these Ip users and Sewnbegun who seem to be doing Ringardiumleviossa's proposed changes. I would like to read your thoughts about this before I address this to sockpuppet investigation. Hotwiki (talk) 12:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

@Sewnbegun 2402:A00:162:3490:4587:1E5C:2AAD:9092 (talk) 16:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

If you had seen my sandbox, then you might know that most of edits are regarding X-Men and that my sandbox didn't only contain information regarding this page but also once contain X-Men page's information (which doesn't mean anything). Even though they have reliable sources, I wasn't the one who added who added months even it was agreed by census, I wasn't the one who added Captain Krakoa. Which of Ringardiumleviossa's proposals are you asking that I implemented? So @Hotwiki, you can do whatever you want to do as I have also said before. Sewnbegun (talk) 18:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I mentioned Ip users alongside you, when I said I'm being suspicious if Ringardiumleviossa just switched account and an Ip address. You and these Ip users, don't really edit a lot of Wikipedia article aside from this one. Also you and these IP users, only started editing, when Ringardiumleviossa was blocked last February 2024. So the timing is VERY suspicious and a lot of the changes you and the Ip users have done in this page, are similar to what Ringardiumleviossa was trying to do in this talk page. Like with Ringardiumleviossa, I told that blocked editor to provide references everytime that editor made a dozen of edits, which you have also been doing a lot lately (name edits, membership of the mutants, etc) and I've told you to provide references which you questioned in the past. Ringardiumleviossa's edits are very similar to you, in my observation. I haven't reported you yet for sockpuppet investigation as I'm still observing your edits, and I haven't reported anyone yet for a sockpuppet investigation yet. So this would be my first. The date of your account registration, the dozens of similar edits to Ringardiumleviossa, and the similarity of your sandbox to the sandbox of Ringardiumleviossa are red flags. Hotwiki (talk) 18:53, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

How can it be similar when what I just did was copy-pasted the last version (before pasting on my sandbox) of the page? I also saw the sandbox of Ringardiumleviossa, see carefully and you'll see great differences. You are welcome to go ahead with the sockpuppet investigation and I won't participate in it. I didn't wanted to do anything with Captain Krakoa - the topic we are currently, but now I want consensus regarding this. Sewnbegun (talk) 19:05, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Let me repeat myself. You registered the day after Ringardiumleviossa was banned. I didn't encounter anyone in my many years in Wikipedia, other than you and Ringardiumleviossa have this article copied/pasted in their sandbox page. Also similar edits/patterns. The way you how express yourself in this talkpage and then making a dozen of changes (big or small) are very similar to the blocked editor. It gave me flashbacks. Also, the blocked editor was blocked for making sockpuppet accounts and who knows, if another account was made. Its certainly a possibility given their history. Hotwiki (talk) 19:25, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Current members of the X-Men

I noticed that from time to time, some characters' codename are being bolded indicating that they are currently members of the X-Men. Yet there is no reference in this article - where readers can see the current members of the X-Men. I suggest if someone's gonna update the current members of the X-Men by bolding their codename, should also add a reference (preferably a reference that mentions the comic book issue). Hotwiki (talk) 14:30, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I have been thinking about it. I read comics so I can say that we should reinstate bolding members and leave that job for someone who reads the comics constantly - who have easy access and resources for comics easily, because I don't think we should need references for bolding the current members. For example if a member leaves X-Men in the comics, we will also need to add references why we removed bold font from that member (In case an editor restart bolding that member just because there is no reference of their removal) and most of the newspapers or sources don't even bother to make an article especially for old members when they re-join. The references regarding pop culture especially comics varies like in the above mentioned cases. I had also noticed that without reaching consensus on the talk page, the whole concept of bold members was removed from this article - which I think is not good. Other articles on Wikipedia regarding similar lists like this article still have the bold concept and if edit war happens regarding any member's status, we an always settle dispute in talk page instead of adding or removing as we see fit. Sewnbegun (talk) 11:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

At the moment, there is no reason to specify who are the current members of the X-Men as those who were bolding names - indicating certain characters are members, can't provide a reference in the first place. Also this is merely a List of X-Men members. Current members of the X-Men are already highlighted in the infobox of the Wikipedia article of the X-Men. Hotwiki (talk) 14:09, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

And fyi, I also just read a bunch of new X-Men comics recently. So if you're implying that I don't read the comics, then thats just your opinion and not a fact. Also editing this page isn't a job. Everyone here is welcome to edit this page as long as they follow the rules. If you were so adamant removing "unreferenced" information.[1] You admitted in your user talk page that you were that Ip user, then you shouldn't question other editors for removing unreferenced information as well. Hotwiki (talk) 14:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Did I mentioned you @Hotwiki in above discussion? No, then what you told above is also your opinion of me which you clearly misunderstood because I WASN'T implying that. And what I admitted was that I MADE AN EDIT WHILE BEING LOGGED OUT, ONCE WHEN I REALIZE THAT I WAS LOGGED OUT, I LOGGED IN AND CONTINUED MY EDITS. I didn't admitted what you are implying here. I can question an editor if they remove an important part of the page (that remained for years) by only adding an discussion in the talk and not waiting for consensus to reach. Even though I agree with you on the infobox thing. Sewnbegun (talk) 15:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Then it is absolutely fine with me if the X-Men members are listed in the infobox of that Wikipedia page. Sewnbegun (talk) 14:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

"most of the newspapers or sources don't even bother to make an article especially for old members when they re-join." At this point, I am not even certain whether hardcore readers are aware when characters leave or rejoin the X-Men. The Utopia crossover (2009) effectively resulted in the X-Men establishing their own state and inviting all of the surviving mutants to move in with them. For several years, the X-Men were living with and co-operating with a large number of former students of the Xavier Institute, various past allies, and villains who took up the offer to join them. A decade later, in the Dawn of X relaunch (2019), the X-Men established a state with an even larger population, inviting most of their past allies and foes to join them. Resulting in several closely affiliated teams, and a huge cast of characters for several years. Which of them are X-Men and which are allies is not that clear anymore. Dimadick (talk) 01:03, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Which is best to NOT highlight who are the current members of the X-Men. Highlighting who are the "current" members of the X-Men would just lead to more editors, updating the current membership without leaving a reference. This was already the case before and most of the time, it also led to misinformation. The Wikipedia article of X-Men, doesn't even line up to this article, as a bunch of editors just update the current members of the X-Men in the infobox of that article without any reference. Hotwiki (talk) 06:47, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I think we should leave the current members of X-Men to the infobox only. Sewnbegun (talk) 07:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

That is why we should rely on References along with previous/future Handbooks. Sewnbegun (talk) 07:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Removal of Indra

Removal of Indra because he is not official X-Men in training. Sewnbegun (talk) 11:48, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

No, don't remove Indra. Let me explain why - there are three Marvel handbook that listed X-Men extensively - Official Handbook of Marvel Universe A to Z #13 (2010), X-Men: Earth's Mutant Heroes #1 (2011) and X of Swords Handbook #1 (2020). Danger from X-Club and X-Force members after Vanisher were removed and those removals were valid because they were not listed in any of the above mentioned three handbooks. Indra was listed in along with other trainees in X-Men: Earth's Mutant Heroes #1 but he wasn't listed in X of Swords Handbook (it was simple error). That was why Indra was included with X-Men-in-training section many years ago. Here is the image[2] for it. Another error happened was in Official Handbook of Marvel Universe A to Z where Cipher was mentioned to be member of sub-team in the year 2002, even before her debut which was in 2008. Here is the image[3] for it. In the same handbook Longshot's joining comic was wrong. Here is the image[4] for it. Another error happened in X of Swords Handbook where several codenames were wrong because they didn't used them as X-Men like Betsy Braddock - Captain Britain, Kwannon - Psylocke, Gabby Kinney - Scout. Here is the image[5] for it. Although handbooks are canon, errors sometimes happen. Reinstate Indra in the list on the basis of above points and solicitation of this - . 2409:40C1:1023:5D0C:BDF8:DE8B:9AE9:9F5C (talk) 04:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I have added him back. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:55, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

X-Men in training and Unofficial teams

I am suggesting these changes because an enormous amount of changes were done in this article on the basis Handbooks and those are canon so it can not be wrong.
I was reading the previous talk pages in the archive and got to learn about the involvement of handbooks in this article. Many sub-team, splinter teams and unofficial teams were removed on the basis of handbooks. I also agree with that because there is no official definition of X-Men except the handbooks but there is this one thing. In X of Swords Handbook, it was stated Cyclops' team of X-Men was not officially sanctioned X-Men and was up to debate. I would like to add that above mentioned Unofficial X-Men section again with Cyclops team and trainees in this page as it was clearly mentioned in the Handbook.
Recently I removed joining comics from some X-Men in trainees because they didn't have sources and were unreferenced. I would also like to tell that if anyone can find a reference of them becoming trainees at which comic issue, feel free to add or correct that issue to their row. Till then I have to say that I will have to add the exact comics mentioned in X of Swords Handbook because that is the only evidence we got here at least for now. Sewnbegun (talk) 13:31, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Those information you removed, have been in the article for more than 10 years - will be restored as I plan to post scans of those comic book issues in this article, so stay tuned! Hotwiki (talk) 14:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

There were many information in this page that were here for years but were removed due to handbooks and I am just leaning to those handbooks right now. I can also provide scans of the current comic book members which were removed from being bolded but you asked for reference. Even you admitted of reading new comics in Talk:List of X-Men members#Current members of the X-Men, still you wanted references. These article don't need post scans. This article needs additional sources. Sewnbegun (talk) 15:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

First of all, the lack of reference was discussed on February 15, 2024. The removal for unreferenced current members of the X-Men was on February 20, 2024. Today is February 28, 2024. If you have scans in the first place to provide as a reference, no one is stopping you to post them here. And Yes, I read the comics, but that's not an excuse not to post references, especially NO comic book issues were mentioned in the article for the list of current X-Men members, that readers can look up for verification. Also may I remind you, you removed information in this article for being unreferenced and you directly told me don't restore them until references are provided. Practice what you preach. Hotwiki (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh God, I do not have a personal agenda against you! Are you reading above discussion? I said I am TOTALLY FINE WITH INFOBOX THING. Sewnbegun (talk) 15:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

May I add, you removed the comic book issue in which Loa/Trance joined as a trainee of the X-Men and it had nothing to do with the handbook, which I reverted. Then you told me (via your ip address) to provide a reference, which I did today. Hotwiki (talk) 15:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

First of all I did not told you anything. I made an edit with valid point and explained it why I made that edit (not explained to you but to other user who might me editing too). And again my IP address has only one edit and that too by mistake which I am done justifying. You did not provided references. Sewnbegun (talk) 15:32, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Read the edit summary of that edit[6] which you made with your IP address. If those weren't your words then who typed those? You admitted in your talk page[7], it was you who made that edit/revert anyway. And as seen today in this talk page, I have added a reference for the comic book issue in which Trance and Loa joined as a X-Men trainee, since you told me directly to add a reference. Hotwiki (talk) 15:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I didn't mentioned you directly!!!! Whatever I type in the edit summary is for all other editors which also includes you but it wasn't about you trust me, it was like in general instruction. Sewnbegun (talk) 16:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Also @Hotwiki, I think we should include Cyclop's team of X-Men in Unofficial section as it was also mentioned in this [8] that they were not officially sanctioned X-Men and their membership can be up to debate. I can find some references with time but add them right now on the basis of consensus and talk page. Sewnbegun (talk) 17:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Trance and Loa

Here are the comic book scans for certain X-Men trainees, joining as a trainee of the X-Men - uploaded from my own IMGUR account.

• Trance (X-Men Legacy #227) [9]
• Loa (X-Men Legacy #238) [10][11][12]

Hotwiki (talk) 14:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

These scans does not show that they joined as trainees as it does in handbook and we also don't have sources yet. Sewnbegun (talk) 15:33, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

The handbook scan[13] posted in this talkpage, doesn't include the comic book issue - in which characters joined as a X-Men trainee. I have provided in this talk page, comic book pages in which Trance and Loa are seen with the X-Men as a trainee and that should be enough. Hotwiki (talk) 15:37, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

If you have a reference of your own that would disqualify these scans as a reference. Then okay. But until then, those pictures I uploaded, should be enough for Loa/Trance. Hotwiki (talk) 15:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

You don't own this page. We even didn't reach consensus and you didn't wait for another editor besides us to share opinion before you added the misinformation like you wanted. I am not the one who need references buddy! So don't talk to me like that. Though I have better scan for you - [[14]]. I get that you are actively editing to this article and that is good. We can add this because this clearly mention which comic they joined until we can have solid reference. Sewnbegun (talk) 16:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

How is that a better scan? Loa and Trance aren't even shown or mentioned in that scan to begin with, to disqualify the pictures I posted. Hotwiki (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki see again because I made an link correction edit. Sewnbegun (talk) 16:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

And how will those who didn't upload the file will know for sure that scan is from Official Handbook of Marvel Universe A to Z #13? If that is legit, then you had that scan in the first place yet when you removed the comic book issue for Loa/Trance, you didn't mention Official Handbook of Marvel Universe A to Z #13 and didn't replace it with information based from that handbook? Hotwiki (talk) 16:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Why you dwell on the past? Firstly, I removed them on the basis of unreferenced and I was going to add those information from the handbook once there was consensus in this discussion which as the main topic and you can again read above. This is legit. I can't prove it to others unless they themselves have this handbook to confirm. Sewnbegun (talk) 16:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

You should have brought up the handbook first before you started deleting things, anyway thanks for the scans! Hotwiki (talk) 17:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Welcome, You forget I have just joined Wikipedia and one of the first thing I ask at Teahouse was of sources that's why I was adding sources to this article and was trying to edit with sources or consensus. Sewnbegun (talk) 17:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

That was my opinion. If you told me in the beginning you have a scan with comic book issues in the first place, when you removed the information about Loa/Trance several days ago, we wouldn't have this long discussion about references/removing information. Instead, you told me to find a reference and when I did, it was only then, you posted these scans. Hotwiki (talk) 17:19, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I did mentioned about handbook but then I had to find references as you can see here in Talk:List of X-Men members#Boom-Boom, Madison Jeffries, Doctor Nemesis, Woofer. After I couldn't find any I removed them and came here to discuss. That's it. Thankfully we reached consensus. Sewnbegun (talk) 17:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

While remaining others except Stepford Cuckoos can be find here [[15]] Sewnbegun (talk) 16:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

So I looked those scans and compare them to this article. How do you explain that Choir (Irina Clayton) isn't mentioned yet Cipher was in New X-Men in year 2002? Should we remove Choir (Irina Clayton) based from that scan? Hotwiki (talk) 16:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Choir is mentioned in the 3rd Row of 3rd Column. Sewnbegun (talk) 17:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Saw it. I'm trusting you that the scan from Official Handbook of Marvel Universe A to Z #13 is legit. I'm not going to add the comic book issues for the other characters as I'm too tired now, so if you don't mind, do the rest for the other trainees. Hotwiki (talk) 17:27, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I can do it no problem. I just hope that maybe I can find some references for others. Sewnbegun (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Consensus on Captain Krakoa

@Eijikkieru, @Higher Further Faster, @Hotwiki, @DrBat, @Gtrmp, @AlligatorSky, @Lipshiz, @Omnipaedista, @BD2412 and also @Dimadick, you have been invited here because of being top editors of some X-Men pages along with being active at Wikipedia last month; as the top contributors of this page are either retired, blocked or had simply stopped editing. The invitation is for the consensus on whether Captain Krakoa should be added alongside Cyclops or not; on the basis of recent comics of X-Men (Volume 6) and on the basis of these references which were already provided above discussions. ( and ) Sewnbegun (talk) 19:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. Hotwiki (talk) 20:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I also oppose, Captain Krakoa was just a disguise for Cyclops in X-Men (vol. 6). AlligatorSky (talk) 13:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

That is my reasoning as well. Hotwiki (talk) 13:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. Same reasoning as above. Eijikkieru (talk) 00:35, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

It appears we can finally close this suggestion, originally proposed by the blocked editor User:Ringardiumleviossa by not adding Captain Krakoa as a codename of Cyclops as a member of the X-Men. Hotwiki (talk) 07:11, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, we should close this discussion since the consensus is very clear against it. Sewnbegun (talk) 07:27, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, may I add, you changed certain words to "this team", thats not encyclopedic and not very formal way of writing. Don't also remove the current description to Lucid, especially that character has no Wikipedia article to check/read. So a more substantial description for Lucid, instead of just a "honorable mention" would be better. You keep changing a dozen of things here that aren't very helpful, and it is really reminiscent of the blocked User:Ringardiumleviossa. Can an administrator, please check if User:Ringardiumleviossa and User:Sewnbegun are the same editor? I don't really know how to file a report on Sockpuppet investigation, a help would be appreciated in this situation. Hotwiki (talk) 12:31, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Also for those names, you don't need to add a reference to every single name in this article, especially if those names weren't being challenged or questioned in the first place. A reference for each character joining the X-Men, specifically a reference to the comic-book issue in which they joined as a member is enough. Hotwiki (talk) 12:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki, firstly, you reverted Ringardiumleviossa's edits when they made changes in this page on the basis of as per Wikipedia page - [16]. And now let me repeat your word when you reverted my edits - [17] (Again, you don't really need to add a reference to every single name, especially those who have a Wikipedia article. This is a list of X-Men members. Not list of names of X-Men characters.). Secondly, I also noticed you only choose only certain names from Ringardiumleviossa's proposal and till this date you keep reverting any changes in name section (if they are different from your original edit) until they are referenced. And now here you say these names don't need to be referenced? I still don't get the meaning of both of above mentioned situation. You even reverted my all edits not even thinking that some of the names were being challenged and changed by providing reliable sources. I think you are very good editor on the Wikipedia and very busy one but at least watch/read the changes in the edits and not just peak over it so that you know that not all changes/edits are invalid and then make appropriate edits instead of reverting it all. I understand your point that not all names need references and it is the page of list of X-men members (and not of names), but if I had made any unreferenced edit, it would have been reverted back. If I have to change certain names which are misinformed in this article, I will have to provide references. I am not going to add the sources to every name this time, just only those which are misinformed or incomplete here. Thank you! Sewnbegun (talk) 18:21, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Based from your edits, you seemed to accomplish what User:Ringardiumleviossa what wanted to do in the article. Your account was created, the day after User:Ringardiumleviossa was blocked in Wikipedia. When it comes to wanting to mention "Captain Krakoa" in this article, you both share the same opinion. Both of your sandbox are suspiciously the same.[18][19] Based from talk page activity of this article, aside from me, you are heavily active discussing changes just like the blocked editor. Like the blocked editor you are constantly making "drastic" changes into this article, and doesn't seem to be editing plenty of other articles aside from this one. @CoffeeCrumbs: since I noticed you, in the talk page of Ringardiumleviossa, can I ask if you could help me about a sockpuppet investigation, if @Sewnbegun: is connected to Ringardiumleviossa. Their editing pattern is suspiciously very similar. Hotwiki (talk) 19:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki I didn't have the same opinion in the Captain Krakoa as Ringardiumleviossa. Read above talks again and you know I never said I wanted Captain Krakoa codename to be added because in fact I wanted to go with consensus instead. That is why I added Consensus on Captain Krakoa talk and also because you keep reverting my edits and I was angry because of this talk [20]. @CoffeeCrumbs understand what is happening by reading exact above reply and the discussion here [21], because Hotwiki is always controlling this page. Reverting unreferenced change? I get that, but why revert whole and every edits without checking that there could be some valid information there. Also, I am not accomplishing Ringardiuleviossa's proposal, all I am doing is just editing on the basis of reliable sources. So you can't remove those without discussing first. I do edit this page primarily from few days because I am also editing the same articles in various websites (including Marvel Database/Wiki) and if you see my edit history, I have also edited some different Wikipedia pages too. And again I am telling, you are welcome to sock puppet investigation on me. Sewnbegun (talk) 19:45, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

I will oppose because of the same reasoning as above. Teedbunny (talk) 13:09, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

This discussion needs to be closed. Teedbunny (talk) 13:10, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Future members

Someone just added "members" appearing in new comic book titles to be released in July/September of 2024. Please don't add them until those comic books are already released. Hotwiki (talk) 06:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Consensus of ForgetMeNot and Woofer (again).

Hello to everyone - @BD2412, @Dimadick, @Eijikkieru, @Higher Further Faster, @Hotwiki, @DrBat, @Gtrmp, @AlligatorSky, @Lipshiz, @Omnipaedista and @Sewnbegun. You all are invited from previous consensus. Last year in this discusssion ([22]), there weren't any reliable source back then and it was decided that we should wait for few more comics to add him in the main list of X-Men. So I have also invited @Storm1221 , @ToshiroIto7 to see if they still maintain their opinion from previous talks.

The first thing I would like to talk about is ForgetMeNot's position in this page, he is added in Other status section, even though he is official member of X-Men according to handbooks (also sources). He is neither an infiltrator nor an honorary member so how come he have any other status instead of official member. If it is about his power of being forgotten, we can add a note as well as notelist section to mention his powers. We should move him to the main list.

Secondly, even if Woofer is not added to the main list, he is still currently eligible to be added as honorary member of X-Men. Let me explain why. Lucid was made member by then X-Man Storm - [23]. Woofer was made member by now X-Man Shadowkat in X-Men, vol. 6 #25 - [24][25]. As per previous talk, we waited and again he was implied to be an X-Man in Fall of the House of X #3 - [26]. It's not like we don't have any references, we have a reliable secondary source (because it was already asked for in previous talks in this page) -

We should also know that definition of X-Men members is gray and that's why many editors on this page have sticked to different handbooks of Marvel Comics but till the new handbook, we should include Woofer as honorary member.

Hoping for response/feedback on consensus of both ForgetMeNot and Woofer in some days.

References

2409:40C1:1006:ACEB:CEC:BAB6:F1A4:A58B (talk) 10:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Not this again with Woofer. How about we wait for an official handbook from Marvel Comics rather than jumping to conclusion once again. This was already discussed before. Hotwiki (talk) 12:19, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

As for ForgetMeNot, I also disagree. He's in other status for a reason. He was retconned as a long time member, yet his actual membership date isn't very clear. Hotwiki (talk) 12:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Also may I add, Woofer's appearance in Fall of the House of X doesn't change anything. He's still not ever seen with the current X-Men team. Hotwiki (talk) 12:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

We didn't waited for handbook during Synch, Prodigy, Rasputin IV and Ms. Marvel's inclusion. In fact Rasputin IV don't even have a reliable source. Sewnbegun (talk) 14:32, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

We didn't wait for the handbook because it was CLEAR they are part of the current team, unless you are questioning the membership of those four members. Woofer is a different case especially there are different opinions in this talk page, if he is a member of the X-Men. I stand by my opinion. Keep Woofer out of the list and keep ForgetMeNot in other status section. Hotwiki (talk) 21:52, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki No, I am also against with Woofer added in team too. But I also agree with that if Woofer is seen with X-Men, we have to add him atleast as honorary member. I don't he qualifies as official X-Men unless it is proven in future handbook. Sewnbegun (talk) 04:02, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Again what is presented in X-Men #25 and Fall of the House of X #3 are similar. Woofer is STILL not seen with the current X-Men team. If a handbook from Marvel Comics mentions him as a member, then add him. But until that doesn't happen, keep him out of the list. Hotwiki (talk) 04:07, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

No, if he is seen clearly with X-Men and is called an X-Men before. It clears everything. He needs to be mentioned as X-Men. We can always remove him if handbooks is not mentioning him. Just like you did two year before when you remove many members from this page when X of Swords (which is right by the way). Sewnbegun (talk) 04:11, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

You are assuming he will be seen with the X-Men which we can't say for certain will happen. Me mentioning an updated handbook doesn't automatically mean, "handbooks" are only the source of information in this article. This article didn't need a handbook reference, for those who were/are clearly members of the X-Men fyi. Hotwiki (talk) 04:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I am not into adding him RIGHT NOW, only IF he is seen alongside X-Men. also yes, handbooks aren't the only source of this article - he already does have a source. I am also against him in adding in the main team but we have to at least add him as honorary member because he is called an X-Man. We should wait and see what the future comics hold. Sewnbegun (talk) 04:38, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

No, I am not questioning the other members but I was pointing out that Rasputin IV don't have a reliable source while Woofer have. It was clear to add them because they were seen alongside X-Men and were declared X-Men and so that should shall be the case with Woofer he is seen alongside X-Men. Sewnbegun (talk) 04:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't why you are suddenly making this about Rasputin IV. If you read the comics, you will see that she is with the current X-Men since X-Men #25 (2023) with other members such as Shadowkat, Talon, Synch and Kamala Khan. If your problem is lack of reliable source for Rasputin IV, you can surely find a better reference or comic book scans. Hotwiki (talk) 04:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I was making another point which you got to to read again in my previous reply to avoid misunderstanding. I am not suddenly making this about Rasputin IV. If I was challenging her membership, I would have simply had her removed on the basis of unreferenced. Sewnbegun (talk) 04:41, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

So is this you [27] @Sewnbegun:? The only edit[28] of that Ip user is oddly similar to your edit when you asked for the consensus for Captain Krakoa.[29] Hotwiki (talk) 04:52, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

No, I haven't done those edits. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Do you realize how similar your edits are to these Ip users who have only edited this 1 article in Wikipedia? You haven't been cleared by an administrator for not being connected User:Ringardiumleviossa. Thats why I remain suspicious of your editing. Then these Ip users, suddenly doing massive edits in the article (in a short period of time) doing drastic changes that somehow align to your edits, and also doing talk page consensus? I've seen a couple of sockpuppet investigations in my almost 20 years stay in Wikipedia, and this is usually how sockpuppetry is caught. Either jumping through another Ip or switching to a different account, to manipulate the outcome of the article. Hotwiki (talk) 05:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I can tell you that I have nothing to do with those edits, I think that blocked user is doing this from different IP. I don't align with, it is just I don't revert every edits and let them be which are correct, referenced and many time, I also check if the edits are done are correct or not before reverting back or making any change. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:29, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh now you think this is the blocked editor Ringardiumleviossa editing in different IP users. The blocked editor that has the same editing patterns as you, from my observation. And somehow you seem to agree on every change from these "suspicious" IP users? Okay. Hotwiki (talk) 05:41, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't always agree if see the talks in this page clearly instead of proving that I am that blocked editor. And again I don't revert everything, I checked them and if they are right, referenced or on majority consensus. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:48, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you about the change of ForgetMeNot, only because of the point that he is official member and not a member of different status. Although I differ in opinion that Woofer should be added, for now atleast. It was decided in the previous talk to wait for atleast his three appearances which is not completed yet. If in future issues of current X-Men headling comics (X-Men, vol. 6 or Fall of the House of X), he appears alongside X-Men we can add him as honorary member. If you insist to add him in main list, we will have to wait for next handbook. Sewnbegun (talk) 14:27, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

ForgetMeNot has been more of a covert operative, who has had minimal interactions with his teammates. There are not many sources on Woofer, since he is a brand new character. According to the Marvel Database wiki, he has a total of 4 appearances since his debut in May, 2023. Dimadick (talk) 16:31, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

It is my opinion that both ForgetMeNot and Woofer should be included in the Honorary Section. I'm not going to explain why because ultimately this page does not follow consensus and it'd be a complete waste of time.Storm1221 (talk) 17:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with ForgetMeNot's proposal but disagree with Woofer's. Teedbunny (talk) 13:11, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Woofer (and arguments here) was mentioned in the AIPT's X-Men Monday #252. Jordan said it's fine to consider him an honorary member. Eijikkieru (talk) 05:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

AIPT isn't a reliable site.Hotwiki (talk) 10:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I know. I'm not joining the consensus on this subject, I'm just stating what the X-Men editor said in the interview. Eijikkieru (talk) 05:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Drastically changing the order of the members

I noticed an Ip user have made their first edit in this article, drastically changing the order of the members and also changing the opening lead like as if there was anything wrong.[30] Then when I reverted it, @Sewnbegun:, reverted it to that edit of the Ip User.[31] From last month, it just seems quite suspicious "drastic" changes have been happening from IP users in the article. These IP users who haven't edited in the past and making their 1st edit in this article. And those edits usually lined up / are always in favor with @Sewnbegun:. Hotwiki (talk) 22:21, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Also in the same day, another Ip user made their FIRST edit in this talk page.[32] It IS their only edit in Wikipedia as of now. And once again @Sewnbegun: agreed to that Ip user. I'm really suspicious if these Ip users and Sewnbegun are just one person and Sewnbegun is jumping through different ips and making these drastic changes to the article. I'm also still suspicious about @Sewnbegun: related to the blocked editor User:Ringardiumleviossa, that editor was blocked for sockpuppetry and I have made a list in this talkpage of why I think Sewnbegun/the blocked editor Ringardiumleviossa, are the same person in the past here[33] I just haven't reported it to the administrators yet, because there's a long wait list in Sockpuppet Investigation and I haven't properly reported anyone yet for sockpuppet investigation.

Hotwiki (talk) 22:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I honestly want to hear the opinion from other editors aside from Sewnbegun about this.@Dimadick: I think you might be aware of most of the discussion in the last several weeks. The editing of Sewnbegun/Ringardiumleviossa are quite similar. Also in the past, I haven't any encountered IP users making/proposing BIG changes to this article, especially for their FIRST edit in Wikipedia, until Ringardiumleviossa was blocked and Sewnbegun started editing this article. Very suspicious. This talkpage proposal[34] alone couldn't come from someone who isn't invested about this article in the past. Hotwiki (talk) 22:42, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

From March 2024. These are the Ip users that made their first EDIT in Wikipedia through this article:[35][36][37][38][39][40]Hotwiki (talk) 23:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Then these are the IP users that made their 1st edit in Wikipedia through the talkpage of this article, in March 2024:[41][42][43][44]Hotwiki (talk) 23:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki, I have this article on my watchlist and probably so do you, and unlike others I read what edits are done before reverting. Why removed the chronological order of Time displaced X-Men and Genoshan assult team? They are legit because when the edits were made by the IP addresses, I read those comics to confirm which I am still doing currently. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:07, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

All Genoshan Assault X-Men members joined in the same issue. All 5 time displaced original X-Men member also joined in the same issue. So changing of the order is not really needed. Hotwiki (talk) 05:11, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes it is true @Hotwiki but let me explain, time displaced X-Men are the same X-Men of Earth-616 (just displaced in time and finally send back) so they had joined that in same order as original members because they themselves are original members - Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Marvel Girl.

---

No let's talk about Genoshan assault team. Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Banshee, Storm, Sunfire, Colossus, Thunderbird on this article had joined in the same issue but are listed in the chronological order of when Professor X recruited them (like he recruited Nightcrawler first and Thunderbird last). When I read Uncanny X-Men #392 yesterday, it was clear that Jean Grey had recruited the members in the order of Frenzy, Northstar, Wraith, Omerta, Sunpyre and lastly Dazzler.

---

I checked it and actually read those edits before reverting or making any changes. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I disagree, its not necessary. The order has been like this for years and no one had an issue about it. The only TWO that want to change is you and this IP user[45]. Hotwiki (talk) 05:26, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Why do you control this page so much, it is not like wat you decide/agree will happen in this article? Again I might clear, I checked and re-read those comics If the order is been in years that doesn't mean it can't be changed if the necessity arrives or they are evident. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a collaborative site. If an editor sees they have a good reason to revert something, they are allowed to do that. Hotwiki (talk) 05:37, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Wikipedia is collaborative site and yet you revert everything (not something) without watching. What about the reason of being what is right/evident? What about the reason of being organisation. Anyways, if you also see the handbooks of the order of same character joining in same comics in the handbooks, they are alphabetical except those whose chronological joining order is clear. It is another evidence. [46], [47] and [48]. Let me about this issue in teahouse to other experience editors. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:43, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't revert everything.[49][50][51] One of those links shows your edit, which I didn't revert. Hotwiki (talk) 05:46, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Because you have no solid reason to revert them anyway. You reverted many names, so I had to add references to prove it. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:50, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I simply reverted back the order which was already in the article for years in the first place. You claimed I revert everything in this article, and I just gave you 3 edits from this month, from 3 different editors that I didn't revert. One of those 3 is you. Hotwiki (talk) 05:53, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Anyways, according to Manual of Style/Comics, one of the list format is chronological order (which this page is) but what about those whose chronological order is not clear, there is also another format mentioned which is alphabetical order. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:00, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, I already disagreed with your proposed changes. Wait for others to comment about this. Hotwiki (talk) 06:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah maybe you just reverted back the order which was already in year but when it need to be change because of proven points, you still did not agreed. Wikipedia is collaborative site. It is not I am doing any fancruft here. I presented it with points. Sewnbegun (talk) 05:56, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't agree and you were also told by me to discuss this in the talk page. So other editors can have their own say. I said my case, and wait for other editors to futher comment on this. Hotwiki (talk) 05:58, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

So on the basis of handbook orders; some similarities (in order) of the main team and sub-team; chronological joining order; and Manual of Style/Comics formats, I am going to make some correction for the sake of organisation. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:03, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, wait for a consensus. You do know you are edit warring, by making a change that someone already disagreed with. This is why Talk pages exist, to prevent edit wars. So don't revert in the article, and wait for a consensus. Hotwiki (talk) 06:06, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I am only editing because of all the evidence/points I laid out. I will wait for 1-2 days for the sake of consensus but I have to make those changes because not many editor participate actively in this talk page. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:09, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Thats not how consensus work. If there aren't more editors that agree with your proposed changes. You can't be restoring something which someone already disagreed with. Hotwiki (talk) 06:12, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Lets invite some those who have participated last day on previous talk. @Dimadick, @Storm1221, can you read this topic please and give your feedbacks? Sewnbegun (talk) 06:15, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I'll also ask about this issue in Teahouse too. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry if you feel that way @Hotwiki, you can say anything but maybe you should see this points; and regarding other editors, we both know not many editors are constantly active in this page except you, me and probably that blocked user using different IP. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:06, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

That blocked editor which is NOT clear if you aren't connected to that blocked editor. I think we have exhausted this topic in this talk.page. I'll just make a sockpuppet investigation petiti9n this week, so administrators can finally review your account/edits. These numerous IP users will be mentioned as well. Hotwiki (talk) 06:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Sure, you can do that investigation. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:13, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hotwiki, according to Wikipedia:Consensus, we can opt for third party opinion, which is here related to this issue. Sewnbegun (talk) 04:54, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

There's still no consensus in this talkpage, so I don't know why you are reverting it again. I already told you to wait for more editors to share their thoughts. Also the opening paragraph is fine as it is. Hotwiki (talk) 06:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I had invite two more editors (for third party opinion) who are lastly active in this talk page, because there is no more than two editors active currently includiny you and me. They are still active on Wikipedia but chose not engage so I sought third party opinion in Teahouse, which is totally okay if you read Wikipedia:Consensus. So I made the edit on the basis of that. I am again open to wait for a weak but we don't have to ignore that teahouse opinion, won't we? Anyway I am going to request a comment too. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

If you can see in this talkpage, there IS one ACTIVE member that is in total disagreement with this change and suggested to wait for more editors to share their thoughts. What you are doing by reverting to the version of the "IP user" which you think is from the blocked editor User:Ringardiumleviossa by the way, is disruptive editing. Hotwiki (talk) 06:45, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I am not reverting to the version of the "IP user". See clearly please. I only made the revert on the basis of order patterns already in some sections of this afticle (order patterns now I think need correction, even if it has been in here for years). To less degree also on the basis of handbooks. On the basis of list formats that are clearly listed on Manual of Style (Comics) (which clearly don't need consensus but I am going to wait). And lastly on the basis of the answer I got from teahouse. Sewnbegun (talk) 06:57, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, you were told to wait for consensus and for other editors to make a comment in this talkpage and you didn't, and went ahead by reverting again. This discussion in the talkpage was started by me, to prevent edit warring and for other editors to share their thoughts. You shouldn't revert to a contested version of the article, just because you couldn't wait for more editors to chime in. It hasn't been that long as well. Hotwiki (talk) 07:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

This page is very stable and if are to focus on presentation, there is already sortable order in this page, chronological order and alphabetical order will be great from the view of both presentation and logic. Teedbunny (talk) 13:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Character's linking

Link the X-Men member Trinary in 2010s section with Trinary (comics). Vinbrad (talk) 07:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for noticing the missing link. Keep up the good work. Dimadick (talk) 14:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC)