Talk:I Know Where I'm Going (folk song)
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Is it Scottish?
editAre you sure it's Scottish? When Michael Powell used it for his film I Know Where I'm Going!, the film was set in Scotland but the title and the song was suggested by Powell's Irish wife Frankie. In his autobiography Powell describes it as a traditional Irish song. -- SteveCrook 13:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- Ives included it in his Irish song book, but perhaps it emigrated from Scotland to Ulster. -- Chironomia 17:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- Or from Ireland to Scotland :) -- SteveCrook 03:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Suppressed Lyrics
editThe original song had the following line: "Some say he is black, but I say he is bonny." This has been changed to either "Some say he is dark" or "Some say he is bad." 71.251.129.133 21:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)TheOldGrouch
- Changed where and by who? It's an old traditional song, lyrics may change over time. -- SteveCrook 00:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- Changed to "bad" by Judy Collins. Changed to "dark" by unknown singer. "Black" may refer to Black Irish, meaning an Irish person who has black hair, not skin.Lestrade 12:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
- Or it could mean they're of dubious character. People might not like that nowadays but it's how the word was used in the past. It's worth noting those variations in the article -- SteveCrook 15:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- The references to "painted rooms" and "Fairest of them all" seem to suggest complexion or skin color. -- Chironomia 17:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- How does "painted rooms" relate to skin color? Also, it would have been difficult to find a Scotch or Irish male with black or even brown skin a hundred years ago.Lestrade 18:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
- Like Johnny, painted rooms are bonnie, the woman says. In this context, the paint on the walls seems to be part of an image cluster suggesting a "colored" surface (whether that be hair or skin), which the woman clearly finds attractive. I'm not suggesting that Johnny is literally black, but certainly there have been people of color in the British Isles for centuries. Some critics believe that Shakespeare's dark lady was a black woman. Of the adjective bonny, the Oxford English Dictionary states, "Pleasing to the sight, comely, beautiful, expressing homely beauty. Now in common use only in Scotland and north or midland counties of England; ...." -- Chironomia 19:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- "Black" means "swarthy". Western cultures admire suntan nowadays, but until well into the 20th century it was disdained as being a sign of outdoor work and thus of poverty. The rich girl loves a peasant lad. Some say he is swarthy but she is attracted anyway. There is absolutely no reason for imagining "black" means Johnny had African ancestry: 21st century America is obsessed with race, the folk songs of the British Isles are not.
- Like Johnny, painted rooms are bonnie, the woman says. In this context, the paint on the walls seems to be part of an image cluster suggesting a "colored" surface (whether that be hair or skin), which the woman clearly finds attractive. I'm not suggesting that Johnny is literally black, but certainly there have been people of color in the British Isles for centuries. Some critics believe that Shakespeare's dark lady was a black woman. Of the adjective bonny, the Oxford English Dictionary states, "Pleasing to the sight, comely, beautiful, expressing homely beauty. Now in common use only in Scotland and north or midland counties of England; ...." -- Chironomia 19:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- "Fair" is nothing to do with skin colour. The word "fair" is the normal word for "beautiful" in English folksongs, poetry, the Bible, you name it.Tdls (talk) 21:04, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
- How does "painted rooms" relate to skin color? Also, it would have been difficult to find a Scotch or Irish male with black or even brown skin a hundred years ago.Lestrade 18:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
- The references to "painted rooms" and "Fairest of them all" seem to suggest complexion or skin color. -- Chironomia 17:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- Or it could mean they're of dubious character. People might not like that nowadays but it's how the word was used in the past. It's worth noting those variations in the article -- SteveCrook 15:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- Changed to "bad" by Judy Collins. Changed to "dark" by unknown singer. "Black" may refer to Black Irish, meaning an Irish person who has black hair, not skin.Lestrade 12:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
Senseless ending??
editThe melody of each verse is:
F-F-G-A-F, C-A-A-A-B_flat-A-G, C-C-C-C-C-F, F-G-A-B_flat-A-A-G
This ending of this melody does not make sense. Any other songs of this kind?? Georgia guy 19:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
The de'il, not the dear
editThree reasons for supporting this amendment: (1) "the dear" is nonsense, (2) "the devil knows" is a standard expression, (3) "de'il" is common Scottish for "devil" and is pronounced "deal", suggesting a fairly crude mondegreen.
Anyone have convincing arguments the other way around? Thanks! Tdls (talk) 21:01, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
More likely to be "Dhia", the Gaelic for "God", I think. "God knows" is a pretty common expression. 142.160.91.181 (talk) 15:29, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
"The dear knows" is a fairly well known Hibernicism for "God knows", based possibly on the Irish homophones Fiadha (God) and fiadh (deer). https://www.wordsense.eu/the_dear_knows/ --DrDaveHPP (talk) 19:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 3 October 2019
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Consensus to move I Know Where I'm Going (song) → I Know Where I'm Going (folk song). I Know Where I'm Going (song) now points to the disambiguation page I Know Where I'm Going, as the move discussion suggests that neither song has topical primacy over the other. No consensus regarding I Know Where I'm Going! (film) → I Know Where I'm Going!. No prejudice against speedy renomination to gain consensus on the film move. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 17:55, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
– The traditional ballad is ambiguous with the more recent I Know Where I'm Going (The Judds song), whereas the 1945 film is distinguished with an exclamation mark; I Know Where I'm Going! redirects to the film article rather than the dab page. PC78 (talk) 19:07, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
- Move to I Know Where I'm Going (folk song). Neutral on the film. © Tbhotch™ (en-3). 02:14, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
- Support film move not only per WP:SMALLDETAILS but also as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC among the three articles[1] when the film's title is written without the exclamation point (as it sometimes is). This will just be a reversion of an undiscussed move from 2018. Station1 (talk) 06:36, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
- Support song move, to I Know Where I'm Going (folk song), but Oppose film move. As can be seen just from clicking into the article and looking at the theatrical release poster, the film isn't exclusively known with an exclamation. And the trend has been increasingly to deprecate borderline SMALLDETAILS cases recently - overall it would be better and easier for WP:RECOGNIZE if we retain the disambiguator. — Amakuru (talk) 14:55, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.