Talk:Squid/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Dunkleosteus77 (talk · contribs) 19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Comments by Dunkleosteus77

• I'm gonna read this out of order

• ref no. 57 isn't right

Removed stray params. Source supports the figures stated. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:36, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• You say the colossal squid can grow to 14 meters but the largest ever documented is 10. I'd check the ref for clarification but ref no. 39 is dead   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Said 10 m, updated NZ ref. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• Make sure to put access dates on news sites   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Fixed three. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• What does contractile mean?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Copy-edited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• "As systemic blood returns via two vena cavae to the branchial hearts," so does blood go systemic heart → body → branchial heart → gills → branchial heart → systemic heart? You should probably give a brief sentence charting the course of blood   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Rephrased. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• Does the source specify the kinds of cross-linked proteins?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Expanded. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• "The food bolus is moved along the gut by peristalsis," that's a very complicated way of saying contracting muscles push food down the tract   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

It's probably the most direct way possible, and will be familiar to anyone who's done basic human biology in school... Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't know what kind of advanced biology classes you're taking, but where I'm from, we stick to mitochondria is powerhouse of cell   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Brit kids do it at age 14 or 15... I've added a gloss in the text. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:21, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• I think you're having some problems with commas. For example, "The mantle wall is heavily muscled and inside, the visceral mass, which is..." why is "visceral mass" treated as an interrupter?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:49, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• Isn't camouflage a kind of defense?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Both defence and offence, i.e. for the visual systems of both the squid's prey and predators. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Well since the Defence section deals only with ink, you should probably just change it to Ink squirting or some variation   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:21, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

It really should have the word "ink" in there because if someone's trying to find information on squid ink, we want it to be easy to find. You could call it Ink, Inking, Squid ink, Ink ejection, etc.   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Added 'ink'. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• I sort of understand why the Nervous system section deals with senses but most people won't make that connection, so you might want to change it to something else   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• "...groups of Humboldt squid hunt cooperatively, using active communication," this seems to me to belong more in the Behavior section somewhere. Is there enough information out there to have a section on squid hunting behavior? You could also conceivably put it in the Feeding section   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I have moved the information and expanded it slightly. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:54, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on. I will get onto it tomorrow, being distracted at the moment by expanding Coronula diadema so as to better understand whale barnacles! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:17, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm doing the same thing with belemnites. They may not be squid, but close enough   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that was quick! Many thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

• The lead can definitely be expanded with info from the Description section (the one big thing I see is you don't mention ink)   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Added ink. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:27, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Do species that produce light not produce ink?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• It looks like someone made {{Paraphyletic group}} to replace taxoboxes. You should probably use that here   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Since the taxon Decapodiformes appears to be a clade, the taxobox fits the bill perfectly. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:25, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

So are all Decapodiformes considered squid then?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:47, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

See the discussion in the Taxonomy and phylogeny section. If it's accepted that cuttlefish are a kind of squid, then yes. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:13, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Well then should we merge Decapodiformes into this article?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  03:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Straight after this GAN, it should be proposed. If accepted, we merge it to here; if not, we use the other template. Chiswick Chap (talk) 00:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

• I feel like there're a lot of better squid images you could use instead of the one in the taxobox (like File:Sepioteuthis sepioidea (Caribbean Reef Squid).jpg)   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Good idea, that's a beautiful photo. Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:30, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• There wasn't a rule about using CC BY-NC pictures, right?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Which images are you concerned about? Articles can use images with any of the many kinds of PD or CC license acceptable to Wikipedia, and even fair-usage images at a pinch. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

the giant squid one, but it should be fine   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:47, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I see. Let's use File:Giant Squid NASA.jpg instead. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Remember unit conversions   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  03:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Done, the clutter messes up the caption format nicely. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:36, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• In evolution, "the body plan has been condensed antero-posteriorly and extended dorso-ventrally," so it became tube-shaped?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Clarified. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:46, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• What exactly is the difference between an arm and a tentacle?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Clarified. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:46, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• In Description, "each takes the form of a muscular hydrostat," so they're used for grasping and don't have bones? You can omit the latter sentiment because you've already established they don't have bones   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:46, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• What do you mean by denticles?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Small toothlike structures. Added a gloss to that effect. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:20, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• You don't use spaces with dashes ("one of the left arms is hectocotylised – and ends in a" → "one of the left arms is hectocotylised–and ends in a")   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• Is the entire second paragraph of Development just about the Hawaiian bobtail squid? It seems a bit off-topic to put so much detail, so you should probably limit it to maybe a sentence or two. Are there are lot of bioluminescent squid or is that the only one? I imagine deep sea squid have this   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Ceranthor might like to reply to this one. However, yes, there are many bioluminescent squid species, and this one has been well studied. I'll add a brief lead-in to the paragraph which may more or less sort this one out, perhaps. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:06, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay because the entire thing seems to imply to me it's just the one species   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  03:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

I've moved the diagram of the light-producing organ to Development to accompany the text; but it might be better to have both under Camouflage, in which case the text would indeed need to be cut down and merged with the text about the organ there. I'm happy either way. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:04, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Either is fine by me. Happy to cut things down if y'all want. ceranthor 14:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

• I think on images we can be a little diverse with glass squid (like File:Cranchiid.jpg), cuttlefish, and just some other suborders (like File:Gonatus onyx.jpg or File:Bobtail squid.jpg) because all you have of living squid are two different Caribbean reef squid   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  03:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Mmm, yes. I've added an image of a bobtail swimming, and of a glass squid, er, being buoyant with its enormous coelom, in the relevant sections. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:04, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• "Cleavage is superficial and a germinal disc develops at the pole" I went to the wikilinks I still don't know what this sentence means   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, I don't understand it either but it comes from Ruppert and the embryology is relevant to the suid's development. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay so let's try to figure this out together. What sentence(s) are you citing? Copy/paste it here, I'll see if I can make sense of it. Also, do you wanna use "larval" or "planktonic"?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Basically, the passage came from the Octopus article because cephalopod development follows a common path. Embryology is not a subject I have studied but that does not mean I cannot paraphrase the source in my Invertebrate Biology. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:58, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

right but you need to paraphrase it in a way that’s digestible. Right now, I have absolutely no idea what it means. What does it mean to have superficial cell division?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Right, here is what the source states: "Cleavage is superficial and meroblastic, with only the cytoplasm at the animal pole undergoing cleavage. This results in the formation of a blastodisc of cells at the animal pole that develops into the embryo. During gastrulation the margin of the disc grows down and around the yolk mass to enclose it in a yolk sac that is eventually incorporated into the gut." Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:19, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

okay so what’s happening here is that egg-laying creatures typically have a yolk, and cell division (cleavage) occurs in a disc-like lump on top (the “animal pole) called the blastodisc which, because it’s the only thing there with cells, eventually forms the embryo. Then the yolk is incorporated into the forming embryo (“in a yolk sac”) during gastrulation when all the cells are beginning to differentiate themselves to eventually serve different purposes (like the heart cell is now different from the brain cell). So, now that you know what’s going on, reword it   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:38, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

OK, I think I am not going to be bullied into changing the wording, which as far as I can see is accurate but a bit technical. I see nothing in the GA criteria that says that everything in an article should be fully comprehensible to a reader who knows little on a subject. Perhaps you could point out the criterion you are using to demand this change. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:15, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

1a where it says the prose is clear. You said it yourself, you didn’t understand the sentence either   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  15:35, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it must be clear. I've tweaked the wording and added a wikilink. Very little actually had to be changed. Hope this is ok with both you folks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• Don't cuttlefish do something weird with colors while hunting? Also in Camouflage, you could make a mention of cuttlefish mimicry   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Actually, many squid (not to mention octopuses) do the same. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:24, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

• Don't squid have their eggs float in the current in floating egg masses?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Some may, but they vary according to species and many are simply not known. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

the Reproduction section reads like all squid lay eggs onto substrate   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  20:33, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Added. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

• In Ecology, how exactly did you pick which animals to discuss in the second paragraph?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

I couldn't find a general source so I picked some common species where I could find the information. Some squid are much better researched than others. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• ref no. 55 isn't formatted right   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• for no. 58, make it a note instead of a ref   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:31, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• Look at the first sentence of buoyancy, "Unlike nautiloids which have gas-filled chambers inside their shells to provide buoyancy ... squid largely live in mid-water and need to control their buoyancy to prevent themselves from sinking"   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

What problem do you have with this sentence? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:05, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

it reads that because squid live in midwater, they can’t have gas filled chambers inside their shells to provide buoyancy   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Rephrased. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:06, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

• In the 1978 boat, how big were the suction cups?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

• Are you trying to get this to FA or does it stop here?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I think here is it for the foreseeable. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• refs no. 10 and 26 need accessdates   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• The Adaptive Coloration in Animals ref is on the wayback machine and it should have an ISBN. What you could do is use the loc= parameter (so {{sfn|Cott|1940|loc=p. 32}})  User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that. However, Cott died in 1987, so I calculate that in 2058 the book will be PD. I've no idea what the Wayback guys think they are doing, but it sure looks like a mistake to me. There is no ISBN; I've added the OCLC for you.Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• ref no. 27 needs a page number   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Replaced. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:45, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• ref no. 36 isn't formatted right   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

• ref no. 48 looks like it's cited as a journal but it should be the book. The current title is the chapter and the actual title is Antarctic Nutrient Cycles and Food Webs   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, something went awry with the parameter names. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:01, 30 January 2019 (UTC)